Pause On The Play

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70. Helpful Questions To Answer Before Hiring A DEI Coach

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In this episode of Pause On the Play, hosts Erica Courdae and India Jackson talk about what it’s like to work with Erica as a DEI coach and consultant.

Since they’ve both worked with and as consultants or coaches, they offer key points to consider before hiring a DEI coach – and in some cases, a coach of any kind – to help you make an informed decision, because working with a coach or consultant is a big investment of time and money.

They suggest you consider:

  • what your dominant learning style is

  • understanding that a coaching relationship is a two-way street where both people put in work

  • what accountability looks like for you in a one-on-one or group situation

  • the benefits of community

and more!

Are you ready to listen in? Here’s what’s happening in this episode:

[01:59] It’s important to know whether the person you’re thinking of hiring is a good fit. But it’s also important to understand that coaching and consulting is a two-way street and you have to be willing to put in the effort to get the results you want.

[02:54] You also need to understand how you learn and process information best. Such as through audio, video, written word, learning by doing, etc. How do you learn best, and can that person accommodate you?

[06:00] But it’s also important to acknowledge that your learning style might differ depending on whether you’re talking about technical things, or more emotional things.

[09:14] In some cases, community might serve you better than one-on-one sessions, so you can see clear examples of what others are doing, what’s working and what’s not in the real world.

[10:21] Knowing what motivates you, demotivates you, and serves you best accountability-wise is also key in attaining the results you want.

[15:08] If you’re in community for connection and accountability, where are you in your ability to give and receive? Are you able to offer support and receive support?

[19:25] While it’s important to be self-aware about your learning styles and ability to give and receive, it’s also important to know that you won’t get results if you only do what’s comfortable. You will have to make an effort to do some things differently to achieve change.

[21:02] Most of all, you have to be willing to commit to the work. You have to show up, do the work, learn, and take imperfect action to make any progress.

WHAT’S ONE ACTION YOU CAN TAKE AWAY FROM THE DISCUSSION?

“I'm glad that you mentioned that is their part of the responsibility, because this is a two way street. I don't do the work for you. I can't get you some type of results that you don't play your part in getting for yourself.” – Erica Courdae

QUOTES

“I'm glad that you mentioned that is their part of the responsibility, because this is a two way street. I don't do the work for you. I can't get you some type of results that you don't play your part in getting for yourself. “ – Erica Courdae

“So I think it was also important to acknowledge if that is a constant thing for you (your dominant learning style) or does it depend on what it is that you're talking about? “ – Erica Courdae

“There's definitely a difference between, I'm thinking of this now, and there's a difference between, having to write or talk out emotional things versus more technical or tangible things.” – India Jackson

“There are definitely people out there that legit can learn things faster when they are seeing how other people are executing on certain things and how they're applying certain concepts to their business or their own individual personal DEI efforts. And then taking the pieces that apply to you from that is very different than working with somebody where it's just you and them. And there's no right or wrong way. But I think that clarity there can really help you make an informed decision.” – India Jackson

“I think accountability looks different for different people at different times and for different things.” – Erica Courdae

“And I think it really just does really require you to be aware. The biggest thing I think I'm hearing of everything that we're talking about here is being aware and knowing how you feel about things and what motivates you, what demotivates you, what will shut you off.” – Erica Courdae

“Well, and so that's also the difference between doing a masterclass or a course or workshop is when it's over to a degree, like it's over. And so you're left on your own with all of the feelings and all of the hopes and dreams and ideas on the positive side of that. But no support and figuring out how to make that work for you and how to keep going, even when it gets hard. The other thing that comes to my mind too, that is something for someone to really consider, as a way to be able to like ...the clarity on this answer can help them maximize their investment... is, where are you at with your ability to give and receive? You mentioned asking for help, are you in a place where that is something that you have built your asking for help muscle? Are you currently working on building it? And then if you're going to ask for help, where are you at with being able to receive the help?” – India Jackson

“One of the most important pieces of it, if not the most important, which is the commitment to showing up, no matter what period, point blank, hard stop. Because if you say I want to do something differently and I'm going to do it. Are you committed to doing that? If you're saying that I want to work with on this with just me and I don't want any other distractions, that means you have to stay focused on you and your lane and do your thing. If you know that you are committed to doing something and communicating in a way that feels good for you, then commit to that. Do that. Stay in the work. Because I've had so many conversations when people feel like they need to tap in and tap out because sometimes it gets hard. But you also have to understand that the tapping out can't be an excuse because it got uncomfortable and that it's not a longterm solution. It is a, let me catch my breath, let me reorganize my thoughts and my efforts.” – Erica Courdae

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Transcript

Erica Courdae  [00:00:00]: Hello. Hello, and welcome back to Pause On the Play. As always it is amazing to see you here, where you are challenged to examine your beliefs, question your predisposed notions, and consider realities you may be unfamiliar with in order to understand that they too are real. I am your host and compensation emcee for the day, erica Courdae, here along with my cohost India Jackson. Ready to get the dialogue going? Hey lady.

India Jackson: [00:00:36] Hey. 

Erica Courdae: [00:00:38] So full transparency, everybody. India is basically getting the whole damn house knocked down over. There is some noise. 

India Jackson: [00:00:48] Yeah, it's a take a deep breath kind of day.

Erica Courdae: [00:00:53] Noise happens. That's okay. We keep it moving.

So just a little disclaimer. So India, I wanted to talk about something that I don't know if maybe people are fully considering this. And I think that this could actually be really helpful. And I think that when people are looking to work with me, they're like, yeah, okay. I want to work on my DEI. I want to make sure that my business is showing up in a way that I'm proud of it. And they're looking to get that kind of support, but maybe they don't know what they want. They don't know what they need, because, that's why you're looking for expert support. You're like, I don't know.

And when that happens, I think there's maybe some things to consider that could help. But I really wanted to get your take on it, what you think and what you've seen from your point of view, because it would be easy for me to say it, but I'm like too close as well. So I wanted to get an additional point of view on that.

India Jackson: [00:01:59] So when I think about what it would look like to work with you, I also have to think about what it has looked like when I have hired a coach or a consultant or a writer or whatever that might be, for myself or for my brand. And I think that any of those decisions, number one, for many people it can feel like it starts with figuring out the right person who's the right fit, and that's important.

But I will say for me in my experiences, when I very clearly knew and invested the time and effort into what would allow me to maximize my results with them, I got more results with them. I got more out of that coach or that writer or that consultant or whatever it was, because I was doing my part too.

And I think back on some of my own personal investments. And I think that it would have been really helpful for me to know what those things are that I could have done to get more out of it. And to really make a more informed decision as well. And so when I think about working with you, one of the first things that comes to mind for me, that someone would benefit from, taking some time to think about is what style of learning, best serves them. How do they learn the best? And when I say that, I think from a standpoint of,  you have audio, you have video, you have a text, as far as ongoing ways to work with someone, as just a few examples of how you can learn in general. And I want your take on like how that shows up and how people work with you on being clear on that.

Erica Courdae: [00:03:53] First of all, I'm glad that you mentioned that is their part of the responsibility, because this is a two way street. I don't do the work for you. I can't get you some type of results that you don't play your part in getting for yourself. So thank you for saying that. And I think this is another example here of what it looks like to be clear on how you best work. What feels good to you and what doesn't. Because let's say for example, one of the ways that I work with people is Voxer. And so if showing up and talking to your phone and saying what's coming up, if that doesn't feel good and you need to be able to make eye contact or, that speaking things is harder for you and you just need to type them out.

You, if you sign on and say, yes, Voxer sounds great. And then you can't really get what you need out of it because you can't put in what you need to put in, well, that doesn't work. And so I think there's just that clarity on, if I don't work well this way, then I shouldn't work this way. But you have to understand that for yourself.

And that doesn't mean that it's right or wrong, but you do have to acknowledge what works for you, because if it doesn't work, you're not going to get the type of outcome you're looking for. 

India Jackson: [00:05:17] Yeah. I'm definitely not going to show up in the same way where I am consistently having to type out how I feel about things as I would, if I had the ability to talk those things out. 

Erica Courdae: [00:05:31] Right. So that's where I think it's important to know. And maybe it's different based on the topics. So let's acknowledge that what I'm asking you for might feel different than something else. So just think the types of things that we're going to talk about, are you going to want to talk about them in that way? So I think it was also important to acknowledge if that is a constant thing for you or does it depend on what it is that you're talking about? 

India Jackson: [00:05:59] Yeah. Cause there's definitely a difference between, I'm thinking of this now, and there's a difference between, having to write or talk out emotional things versus more technical or tangible things.

Erica Courdae: [00:06:13] Yes, exactly. Exactly. So that's where I think that it is important to have that clarity, but I think in the same way, it's also important to figure out if you are someone that is trying to work through what equity looks like in your business, for example, I think it's important to figure out how do you learn. And are you someone that is you need to give me tasks, give me things, read, give me directives, or do you learn by paying attention to what's going on around you seeing what else is happening, seeing what other people are doing or saying, or what's coming up, are you just that person that really pays attention to what's happening around you?

And that's where you really take in your information? And so if you're someone that learns by example, I think it's important to understand that you might get a different type of experience doing that in a community type of setting or group setting, as opposed to let me go do this one on one. What do you think?

India Jackson: [00:07:17] Oh, absolutely. I can definitely say that without going too far off into another subject, but for those of you that have any knowledge of Human Design and know what yours is, there are literally some people whose Human Design is going to allow them to learn better from examples of what doesn't work. 

And if you can learn from what doesn't work for other people, you save yourself having to experience what doesn't work for yourself. So that's a whole another one, but there are definitely people out there that legit can learn things faster when they are seeing how other people are executing on certain things and how they're applying certain concepts to their business or their own individual personal DEI efforts.

And then taking the pieces that apply to you from that is very different than working with somebody where it's just you and them. And there's no right or wrong way. But I think that clarity there can really help you make an informed decision.

Erica Courdae: [00:08:21] Yes. And I think sometimes people that are really clear on things and they're like, I'm just trying to refine this.

Sometimes one-on-one works well because, we have some clients where like too much of the community piece for them could feel like noise. And so that one on one means that they are focused or targeted. They are really locked in on what it is they're doing. But for other people that are, yeah, this is what I have.

But I'm also trying to evolve this and I feel like I want some other things or I need more feedback. And so that community piece gives you that additional space to be able to see what's possible. And I think that's a big piece of it because sometimes it's,  I can't see how this works for me, or I can't see any other ways to do this. And being able to see other things modeled can really open up that possibility. And I think that's a powerful piece of it. 

India Jackson: [00:09:14] Yeah. And I'm glad that you mentioned like the difference between the community and one-on-one because what I also find is that for some clients, both might be the answer, but for different reasons.

So I can see where for some people that need the learning experience to be more focused and more direct and more customized and tailored to them and to have a little bit more access, having that one on one paired with the community piece to be able to give you that accountability. Accountability is huge and how much accountability do you really need?

I think a really big question to ask yourself, when you're deciding which offering is going to be better for you, but also how to get the most out of what you're investing in. So for some people, a community component in addition to one-on-one is there for that accountability piece. It's there to be able to build relationships and connections, to feel like you're getting further together.

That's just an element that one-on-one can't necessarily bring on its own. 

Erica Courdae: [00:10:21] No. And I think what you said stood out in that I think accountability looks different for different people at different times and for different things. I think the accountability to go have that big conversation, and that big conversation might not be something bad. It might be asking for help. Because that in itself is a thing that's not always easy, and this is not the type of work that you go do on your own.

And so if you are looking for support or you want to partner and co-create something with someone, then sometimes you might need that accountability to be like, hey tapping you on the shoulder. Did you send that email? Did you have that connection call? And so I think that's important, but then the other side could be that person that's like, hey, so we're doing this work one on one. And I saw that this was what came up and I wanted to give you feedback on this and this feeds into blah, blah, blah.

So it can go from there. And I think it really just does really require you to be aware. The biggest thing I think I'm hearing of everything that we're talking about here is being aware and knowing how you feel about things and what motivates you, what demotivates you, what will shut you off. I think that having that understanding is important. 

India Jackson: [00:11:41] Absolutely. and I think that as far as accountability, the one thing that I want to make sure that people picked up on is that, none of the options and working with a DEI coach or consultant specifically, you are missing accountability. Why? Because that's exactly why you're investing in the first place. Because there will be points where this work is not easy. There will be points where you feel like you've unlearned and relearned and you're there. There's no such thing as there. And then boom, here comes something else like, Oh shit.

And the accountability, whether it be the accountability of a standing regular appointment where you're having one-on-one calls or the accountability of having a room of people who are going to notice when you're not there anymore and want to support you and make sure you're okay. And not let you hide and disappear. It's still accountability, and it's not allowing you to do the hiding and do the stuck-ittude of being on your own as you figure this out. 

Erica Courdae: [00:12:53] Yes, it is a thing. So it's funny. Cause like I have clients for example, that are super excited about using Voxer they're in it and they're active and then they hit this point and they start getting a little quiet and I'm like, Hey. Just checking on you, you okay over there and there? And more often than not, the conversation becomes, thank you for checking with me. I know I was hiding. This was what came up and it usually involves it got hard, or, I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, or it feels really big. And can I make any influence here? 

And so these things that come up that it's really difficult for you to talk yourself out of them. And so this is where I'm like, hey, this is what I'm here for. And I can help you if you want the help. And so sometimes it's just acknowledging, hey, this is where I am. And I gotta stay here for a second.

And other times it's like, yeah I do need a hand. And either one is fine, but I think there is something about somebody just signaling to you that  you are safe, like you're not stuck in the muck on your own, and I'm going to walk away, and you're just, whatever.

India Jackson: [00:14:06] Well, and so that's also the difference between doing a masterclass or a course or workshop is when it's over to a degree, like it's over.

And so you're left on your own with all of the feelings and all of the hopes and dreams and ideas on the positive side of that. But no support and figuring out how to make that work for you and how to keep going, even when it gets hard. The other thing that comes to my mind too, that is something for someone to really consider, as a way to be able to like – the clarity on this answer can help them maximize their investment – is, where are you at with your ability to give and receive? You mentioned asking for help, are you in a place where that is something that you have built your asking for help muscle? Are you currently working on building it? And then if you're going to ask for help, where are you at with being able to receive the help?

Once you ask, where are you at with being able to give support back to others? And those might be three very different answers, and that's okay. But I say that because as the co-facilitator of the community, when you're in a community setting, it does allow you to really be able to give and support others, in a way that one-on-one work may not necessarily tap into as much, but then also the receiving looks different than receiving from one-on-one. And the ability to ask in a community setting looks different than asking an individual coach or consultant that you've invested in.

Erica Courdae: [00:15:54] It does, but this is also where I think it's important to, and this is of slight side note, but not really, in that I think it's important to know, do you like to invite people to things individually or do you like to stand up and be like, Hey everybody, just letting you know, this is an open call, all of your welcome and I'd love for you to be a part of it. Do you do better with being able to support somebody one on one and then being able to take one on one help, or do you really like having that dialogue and that full conversation where there's, 10 plus people that are like, Hey, I'm going to comment and tell you what I think about this question that you put out there. Are you okay with that? Because for some people that can feel like a lot. And so if that isn't something that feels good to you, at least not at that moment I think it's important to acknowledge that's not going to be the best way for you to be able to ask, give, or receive. And it's definitely not going to get you to the outcome.

India Jackson: [00:16:54] Well, and so here's where I may disagree with you a little bit. But it's directly related to my own experiences. So for me being in a community setting, and I'm saying this as the co-facilitator of a community that we have together, but I feel like having to broadcast out loud my ask, having to broadcast out loud to multiple people at the same time feedback or anything like that, is very uncomfortable for me. But part of the reason why I really enjoy the community setting, both in facilitating and being in other communities, is because it allows me to work that muscle. And also I've learned that, and this might be the whole introvert extrovert thing too, but I've learned how to make that work for me.

So what that's looked like specifically for me that doesn't have to be for anybody else, but is going in and finding the ability to sometimes ask privately for somebody that I've met in the community space the question that I need to ask them directly. Or sometimes in individually inviting people, even though I could do it in the big broadcast. Sometimes it actually feels more in my comfort zone to ask individually. And I'll say for our community Pause On the Play, because we're on a system called Mighty Networks, you have the ability to privately message people one on one in there. 

Erica Courdae: [00:18:24] So let me say, yes, and I still have some of mine and I will tell you why. So yes, you are right. And this is where I'm going to acknowledge that you do have both options, which is the thing. You can do a broadcast and you can do the individual kind of ask. However, community doesn't really grow if you stay too long in the individual asking. So that is good based on it is something that needs to be more targeted one-on-one or it is something that is specific and that's what needs to happen. However, that can't be where you retreat to as your regular go-to.

India Jackson: [00:19:07] It can't be your default. 

Erica Courdae: [00:19:09] No.  But what you said was important in that I think that there is one thing to know how you tend to navigate things. And it's another to say, I know that, and I want to shift that some, because that's different. It is one thing to say, I don't work well with this and I've pushed it. I've tried it. I've prodded and pulled and all these different things and it doesn't work. It's another to say, this doesn't usually feel good, so I don't do it. And so therefore, I want to try to see if there is something that I can do to get a different outcome.

So that is where I can say that is where sometimes it can be worthwhile to do it, but that also requires you to say, this feels a little uncomfortable and I'm gonna do it anyway. 

India Jackson: [00:19:58] Thank you for saying that, because that is a very conscious decision when I've had the choice to do someone's community versus one-on-one or a group program versus one-on-one. It has been a very conscious decision as to why I'm making that choice. And if that choice is going to be for me as the person who It doesn't always feel comfortable broadcasting in a big community, I'm making the decision when I make that decision that I'm doing this because it's going to push me out of my comfort zone.

And so just being aware of that, like the conscious decision versus, oh, this was a choice based on price point or whatever else we convinced ourselves it was. 

Erica Courdae: [00:20:39] And like you said, it's a choice. it's not forced. It's not I have to do this. 

That's something else. Choice is important. But to me, all of that leads into one of the most important pieces of it, if not the most important, which is the commitment to showing up, no matter [00:21:00] what period, point blank, hard stop.

Because if you say I want to do something differently and I'm going to do it. Are you committed to doing that? If you're saying that I want to work with on this with just me and I don't want any other distractions, that means you have to stay focused on you and your lane and do your thing. If you know that you are committed to doing something and communicating in a way that feels good for you, then commit to that. Do that. Stay in the work. Because I've had so many conversations when people feel like they need to tap in and tap out because sometimes it gets hard. But you also have to understand that the tapping out can't be an excuse because it got uncomfortable and that it's not a longterm solution. It is a, let me catch my breath, let me reorganize my thoughts and my efforts.

And so if you are committed, you have to understand that any of those moments where you need to gather yourself, they are meant to be momentary. They're not meant to be, yeah, I'm out. And so no matter what it is, what combination of one-on-one, two to one, if you choose to work with India and me, being able to support you. Or if it's within the community or masterclass, we have options. But whatever combination you choose of those, you have to commit and you gotta stick to it. And you got to do your part. 

India Jackson: [00:22:29] Yeah. I'm there with you. I completely agree that the most important thing out of this conversation today, if you take nothing else away from it is your commitment to show up no matter what your commitment and decision to continue doing the work. Even when it gets hard, even if doing the work today, looks like saying, you know what? This is really hard. And I don't know where to pick back up the pieces on doing this. It's still showing up. But disappearing, hiding and not giving or having that accountability that you need to keep going is the number one thing that I see shows up where people are not getting anything out of their investment, or they're not getting as much as they possibly could because they are tapping in and tapping out.

Erica Courdae: [00:23:20] So this is where, again, if you are clear on these things, you go forth and you do your thing. But if you don't, this is where you say, hey, I don't know quite what I need and maybe I just want to talk it through. And so I guess, in my opinion, this is where using myself as the example here, if somebody was like, Hey, I want to work with you.

But there are some things I'm not sure on. That's when they make their consultation call with me and we get a chance to say, okay, what is it that you want to do? Who do you want to do it for? Why does it matter in the sense of if you understand this or not, then we can figure out what are the options that are there for you? What feels good? What doesn't? Why? Cause I might push it, push at you just a little bit. Does it not feel good because it's scary, or because it legit doesn't feel good? But that gives a place to be able to actually figure out, okay, what are my options? What's the next best step now? And, let me make sure that I've talked through what I need to talk through.

So I'm not getting in my own way as to why I'm not moving forward. 

India Jackson: [00:24:28] Yeah. There really is no wrong decision and there really is no right decision. There's just a right decision for you. 

Erica Courdae: [00:24:37] Right. And that right decision for you can sometimes be different now than what it is in the future than what it was in the past. Because I don't know how many lives I have lived this year. Multiple. 

India Jackson: [00:24:47] That's an understatement. 

Erica Courdae: [00:24:51] It's important to know that where you are now is not where you always will be. And that's okay. This is just where you are now and what you need. Acknowledge that, go with that and give yourself space to evolve and change. 

India Jackson: [00:25:06] Yes. 

Erica Courdae: [00:25:09] So if you have any questions on what is the next best step for you,

this is where you can go on over to Ericacourdae.com/services, and you can book a consultation call with me. We can talk this through. We can see what you do need and in some cases, and it's happened multiple times, I may say you need India and I. So just be prepared in case you do hear that because occasionally what you need goes into the realm of what we both do. And so with that, go ahead and make your appointment and know that it's safe to do so. You can do that. You've got this. 

So as always, we love showing up here having real conversations, normalizing the challenging things, crossing lines, recreating boundaries, and finding ways to support and not separate. Let's get more people dropping the veil, challenging their thoughts, feelings, and actions. So until the next time, keep the dialogue going.