69. Brand Alignment Is A Conscious Choice
In this episode of Pause On the Play, hosts Erica Courdae and India Jackson hold the first ever episode where they take questions live, while recording, from Pause On the Play: the Community members.
The August theme in the Community is brand alignment, so Erica and India deep dive into
what brand alignment means to them
what brand alignment looks like in action
how we feel in we are misaligned, and how we get there
how brand alignment starts with the self, who you are as an individual
how being in alignment helpsyour brand build relationships with people and why that matters
and much, much more!
Are you ready to listen in? Here’s what’s happening in this episode:
[04:18] Brand alignment is an action. It can look different ways, but it requires action.
[07:48] Misalignment often happens when we’re trying to be or do something we’re not because we’re programmed to think we need to do or be or say certain things or behave certain ways.
[10:12] Getting aligned means claiming who you are and what you do, no matter what people think. It’s taking what’s been held against you and using it as a source of power.
[17:01] If we’ve been trained that we shouldn’t talk about personal values, beliefs, politics, religion, etc., in business, we need to reprogram our minds and our actions so we can show up as our whole selves.
[21:00] Being in alignment in your business means deeper client relationships, because it extends past the transaction itself.
[22:27] Gaining referrals is often based on brand alignment, meaning your reputation and representing yourself as you truly are.
[26:08] Brand misalignment can lead to burnout quickly.
[28:29] The messy middle of brand alignment is realizing that you’re creating something totally new, and there’s no one doing the same thing who’s an example to you. This is where choosing your mentors, coaches, team, etc., carefully is extra important. The traditional formulas and advice probably won’t be much help.
[33:00] Expect some confusion when you’re trying to explain to people what it is you’re building or doing if there isn’t already a blueprint for you.
[36:20] When you’re inventing a hoverboard instead of reinventing the wheel, it’s important for you to find team members who buy in to what you’re doing and understand it well.
[38:40} Your personal values and your brand values won’t match up exactly, but there will be overlap. Environmental friendliness might not be one of your brand’s explicit values, but you will likely make some business decisions based on that personal value. They will intersect.
[40:36] Consumers are looking to see that you are who you say you are. They are interested in your values, and whether yours align with theirs. Instead of causing you anxiety, that should feel like freedom to truly be yourself.
[43:14] You do not have to be a part of a demographic of people in order to support the demographic of people, in order to raise awareness about their needs. Take up space.
[49:52] Your personal side and your values showing up in your brand allows people to buy in differently, at a deeper level, than they would if their interaction with you were purely transactional. It’s a way to build a relationship.
[52:45] Brand alignment takes a lot of time, effort, and decision making. It can be a rabbit hole. But ultimately it’s worth it, because you’re living with integrity, and your clients respect that.
WHAT’S ONE ACTION YOU CAN TAKE AWAY FROM THE DISCUSSION?
“The more my brand feels aligned with my values, the more grateful I am for my clients, because their relationship extends past the service being performed.” – POTP Community Member
QUOTES
“In order for someone to say yeah, they're always on time, all these things, it requires making sure that your brand, meaning your reputation, is actually who you say you are, who you want people to believe that you are.” – India Jackson
“And I think that there's something to be said, particularly when you have a service that really is intimately entwined in parts of their lives, and how you really do garner relationships in that way. But those relationships also are a large part of referral bases. And I think with creating a business that runs outside of social media that's not dependent on its existence, you need that.” – Erica Courdae
“Brand alignment is knowing your truth. Is that what feels aligned for you to do? Does that support the way that you view the world? Does that support the impact you want to have? And if so, go forth and do that, you know, but if it's not, you're gonna keep burning out and struggle.” – India Jackson
“Many times when we're taking the time to figure out what is our truth, How do we want to do things, what's the impact that we want to have, as an individual and as a brand and as a business? Many times you will find that you are having to create the wheel because it doesn't exist. And there's something to be said about that. If you know that you're here to do things differently, if you know that you are here to provide a new solution to a problem that you've seen over and over again, or to service a different demographic that hasn't gotten that much service or attention that maybe they deserve to have, then seeking traditional advice and formulas is not going to get you there. “ – India Jackson
“it can be a challenging thing to realize you're creating the blueprint, you are the blueprint, and that sometimes can make your imposter syndrome want to pop up like wait, but maybe it doesn't exist because it's not supposed to. No, it's just that you are doing it. Your particular way of putting together your ideas around things have gotten you to this point.” – Erica Courdae
“It's easier to go with what already exists than to try to recreate the wheel. And at some point, you're not even trying to recreate the wheel. You're making the hoverboard, or whatever the thing is that doesn't already exist. Being an innovator in any way, shape or form, like large scale, small scale – and I don't say that to say that it doesn't mean as much, but for someone that maybe doesn't feel like, I'm not Elon Musk, whatever – it's just the sense of doing something that's outside of that can feel like, who am I? What am I doing? Is this for me to do? And we've been so conditioned to not listen to our intuition and to follow what feels good, and what is aligned and what what is your truth that we question it so deeply, and we have trouble being able to even get to that point of considering that it's not only possible, likely, and feasible, but the actual now let me go do the thing.” – Erica Courdae
“The new program and way of thinking is that consumers absolutely want to know your values, that consumers are absolutely looking to see that you are who you say you are at all times. And of course being human and having humans working for your business. They're gonna have good days and bad days. But you're not suddenly a different set of values, suddenly a whole nother person. And I like to think that we're moving away from putting people into the societal box and into fitting into that wheel. And really moving into a place where individuality is appreciated. It's accepted and celebrated.” – India Jackson
“Every decision we're making has an impact. Whether we're willing to take the time and effort to see that or not. I want to acknowledge that full brand alignment is a lot of time. It's lot of effort, it's a lot of decision making. And it can be a complete rabbit hole. I mean, something as simple as you know, like we were talking about earlier what gifts you give your clients, you can just go buy a premade gift box with decisions done for you, quick and easy. Making the decision of every single thing and making your own client gift – and I share that because it's something that we've been working on recently – it requires a lot more time, a lot more effort and research.” – India Jackson
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Transcript
Erica Courdae (00:00): The mics were not cooperating, which is why we are AirPoded up because they weren't working. So this is the learning curve, but we're still committed to making it happen. So here we are. I'm holding my crystal. I'm like, please help me. Save me right now.
Hello, hello and welcome back to Pause On the Play. As always, it is amazing to see you here, where you are challenged to examine your beliefs, question your predisposed notions, and consider realities you may have been unfamiliar with in order to understand that they, too, are real. I am your host and conversation emcee for the day. Erica Courdae, here along with my co-host India Jackson, ready to get the dialogue going. So today we are trying something new as you heard from the intro. So, in our community, Pause On the Play: The Community, we actually decided that we wanted to see what happens when we recorded the podcast live. So we actually did it in Crowdcast. That way, our community could actually be there as well.
So we actually had community members that were there talking to us via chat, they were giving us questions. And if you've never done Crowdcast before, essentially it's a platform where you can have people that are kind of listening in they can, you know, pop in questions and have dialogue, and they can chat amongst each other, but that's their way to also be able to talk with you. We recorded, we were on video, but they were talking with us, and so the audio obviously sounds a little different. But there's a learning curve on using this here Crowdcast. But we did it. We made it through. And we definitely want to hear what your thoughts are on it. So take a listen. See how it sounds and what you pick up from it. And if you are looking to be a member of the community at the end, I'll tell you a little bit more about it. So I'm gonna let you go ahead and get us kicked off, India. So from the sake of time integrity, we can make everybody's time worthwhile not talking about shitty audio.
India Jackson (02:32): Well, welcome to this episode. I am excited today because I think that what you and I both have in common for a really long time is realizing that conversation has the power to change the way people see, think, feel and do things. And we've always had great conversation together. But in going deeper into the work that we do and seeing how that's evolved, what became very evident to both of us was being able to have conversations with other people like we do each other. But diverse people with different backgrounds, different education, different genders, different life experiences, is where the real magic happens. And so it's been on our radar for a while to be able to bring these conversations into more of a community front for the podcast. Going beyond just what many people are during the podcast, which is interviews, being more inclusive. So I'm really excited that the community is in on this podcast episode. They're getting to contribute their questions, leave their snarky comments in the chat box because we love them.
Erica Courdae (03:48): Yes to the snark!
India Jackson (02:32): Yes, or selfie. All are welcome. I know this month in the community, we've been talking about brand alignment and what that looks like, which is actually an action, not a concept. So there I think we have to do to align ourselves. And I thought it'd be great to bring that conversation here in a way that it's more collaborative.
Erica Courdae (04:18): Yes. So again, we've talked about the fact that brand alignment is an action. And so this is where I want to make sure that there's clarity on what that can look like. I know that there're multiple ways to identify it. It doesn't look any one way. But I also think that it's important to kind of pick up on some of the less widely recognized pieces of it, so that not only does it make it easier to see where it exists out in the wild, but you're also able to identify where it exists with yours. Because it's really easy to kind of look at someone else's alignment or lack thereof with their brand. And then when it comes time for yours, it's like, hmm, I'm not really sure. And I think that there's some of the common things that people think about with just what it looks like, visually – the colors or the fonts and things like that.
But I think it's so much more than that, that doesn't get the representation or acknowledgment that it deserves in the sense of, are you talking about the same types of things? Are you centering the same types of causes that matter to you? Is your tone of voice consistent. If you show up with a, I give zero fucks, do you consistently give zero fucks and not in a way of, I don't care but in the sense of, it's you. Where you be kind and I can still understand like, yeah, they're kind, but also understand, like those zero fucks are still there. It didn't go away. So I think it's just kind of acknowledging those things that are consistent, those things that are unwavering. That's a huge part of what compiles the whole of brand alignment.
India Jackson (06:27): Yeah. And when I think of, you know, being consistent and being aligned, and really beginning to kind of step into that alignment, one of the things that comes to mind for me is, why were we ever misaligned in the first place? And so I think that people can want to jump to leaving all the things that possibly need to change, or I need to rebrand, or I need to hire new people. Because that's also part of your brand alignment is who's on your team or not. Or I want to work with different clients. And I do think that it pays off, to pause for a moment and to acknowledge, why do we feel like it's misaligned in the first place? And one of the things that comes to mind for me on that is a conversation that we've had privately. But also, I think it's important to have hear about the programming that happens. I feel like when people are very young, you have a very clear sense of who you are for most people, because you don't have society's expectations put on you, super, super young. And then we're programmed or domesticated to believe that we need to do or be or say certain things or behave certain ways.
Erica Courdae (07:48): I'm gonna pause you on that. I really want to hone in on that word domesticated. I think that that's an amazing word for it. And I think it's so pertinent because it's easy to sometimes look at it and to see, this is where you had to assimilate, or this is where society said that you had to do something but there's something about domesticated that really stands out. First of all, it makes me think of animals for some reason. But it also makes me think of teaching someone the layout of where the forks go on the table, and you have to drink like this with your pinky up and all that shit. I called it shit because it is shit. But in the sense that, you're not enough if you don't do this. And so there's something about the word domesticated that stands out so strongly, because it really does speak to the fact of whether someone has deemed you worthy or not.
India Jackson (08:55): Yeah. And so when we think about that, as an individual, that contribute to whether or not you're able to fully show up as yourself, whether you're able to own and claim what that is. And if we're already starting with that as a part of human nature that's working against us in the modern world, then when we look at deciding to do this crazy thing of starting our own business, or becoming our own brand, so to speak, if we're a solopreneur, or an influencer, how much more that shows up. You already have this against you on the individual front. And then now it's I want to start a business and insert business type here. And there's so much information about what that kind of business needs to say, how it needs to market itself, what kind of colors it needs, who it should be working with, what events it should go to, to find your ideal client. So we look at all of these things. And it's like we're doing that again to our businesses. And no wonder we end up in a place where one day we wake up and say there're things here that don't feel aligned and I need to shift them.
Erica Courdae (10:12): So the interesting thing is when you talk about the owning and claiming of things, it makes me think about that point in life where you are told that that's not okay. You're told not to own or claim something. For myself, I always think about an experience that I had when I was a cosmetology teacher where I laughed out loud. And those of you that know me, if I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna laugh. And my boss from across the room – I was a grown ass woman when this happened – was like, "SHHH." And it reiterated again this I'm too loud, I'm showing up to boisterously, I'm taking up too much space. And that wasn't the only time that I had been told that the way that I communicated didn't work, but at the end of the day, how did it show up in what I did or didn't do? How did it show up in me not allowing myself to take up space? How did it keep me from being too loud, outspoken, or anything else that could be affiliated with loud?
Because sometimes you don't even take the direct message, you take all the ancillary pieces of it. And so how can things like that silence your voice, shift your view, change how you allow yourself to show up? And it ultimately prohibits you from finding alignment. And you're building something and you don't know why this doesn't work. I can't figure out what's wrong with it. It just doesn't feel right. Or I'm not making money, or I'm making money and it is draining the living shit out of me. I don't want to do it. And you just maybe don't know why. But there's all of these things that can come up that are basically trying to snuff out the things about you that somehow or another, somebody else thinks aren't okay, rub them wrong, or they're envious of. They're jealous of it. They're appalled by it. Whatever it is. And they are telling you that you're wrong.
India Jackson (12:26): I think that if we're agreeing here – and I'd love to see the community contribute their thoughts – that a large part of alignment is getting back to the root of who you are as an individual, and the root of what your brand was here to do, what was the original purpose and intention that you decided to do this crazy thing that is, so not the norm of starting something of your own instead of being a part of someone else's organization. If that is really the route Brain alignment, is asking ourselves these questions, what was the purpose? What was the intent? Who am I really? What is this really meant to be? What's the impact it really wants to have? And I say it wants to have because sometimes your brain can take on a life of its own. If we're agreeing about that, then I'm really curious to know from you, Erica, what for you along the way became the beginning of re-assessing the alignment of your brand? What were some of the questions that you started to ask yourself?
Erica Courdae (13:38): One of the first things was – it always goes back to Silver Immersion – when I started actively advocating for and supporting same sex marriage front-facing, that was a big piece of me reclaiming my voice. And particularly in the wedding industry, where it definitely felt like I needed to acclimate myself to being softer and quieter and YAY this is so amazing! And I had to make it palatable. And I actively was like, fuck that. I'm not doing that. And it definitely kept that momentum going of me not being quiet anymore. And don't think that I was ever truly quiet, but I don't think that I was using my voice fully either. And I really think that that was a big starting place.
And when I started actually owning the fact that, oh, so you mean the thing that I've been doing in the beauty industry for over 20 years that people will pay me for this? And I'm good at it? And I couldn't really say what I think? And that's of value, and that's what you want from me? Oh, shit. That's the thing. Okay. And so part of it is, I had somehow thought that what had ease for me wasn't the valuable thing. And that wasn't the thing that I should be doing. And that wasn't worthy of creating a brand. Because that's just me. I'm just talking. And so I minimized it for myself. Nobody had to do it for me. I did it.
India Jackson (15:34): Yeah, especially with women, I believe, we might be a little bit more trained and programmed that we have to work hard for stuff. Women, and I'm going to say marginalized groups, especially people of color, like, oh, if it was easy, then it's not worthy of me saying that people should pay for it.
Erica Courdae (15:55): Working hard, not asking for help. I think a lot of those things come up because I think part of it is, you have to figure it out on your own. And yet, then there's this other end of the handicap, and I have to ask everyone for all the help because I can't think for myself, not supposed to think for myself. But yet if you don't think for yourself, it's like, see, this is why we don't leave you to your devices, little woman. You can't do this on your own. That's so hard. Yeah. So I think there's a double edged sword with it.
India Jackson (16:35): One of the things I noticed that came up for me when you were talking about Silver Immersion is the piece of actually speaking your mind. And doing that in an industry where it's otherwise deemed not acceptable – you don't bring politics, religion, activism, into weddings. It's somebody's day, right?
Erica Courdae (17:01): You don't into the beauty industry at all. They made it very clear, you don't talk about that. Leave it all to the side. And so when I think about it, the funny part is – and I want you to tell me if you've seen this and if you think about it in the same way – doesn't the seem kind of weird this somebody is like, I don't care what anybody else thinks or believes. Just do the service anyway. They could hate black people but just do it. Don't talk about that. They could hate kids. Let's just not talk about that. Let's say pets. Everybody understands, we say somebody doesn't like dogs, people get all up in arms and clutch my pearls. Somebody doesn't like dogs. Doesn't that seem kind of weird?
India Jackson (17:45): You're asking people to leave pieces of themselves at the door.
Erica Courdae (17:49): All of yourself at the door. Any opinions that you have aren't wanted. Any thoughts about what is or is not okay. You're asking all of it to be left, and to not acknowledge any of it. And just do the service. Just buy the thing, let them give you their money, whatever. And something about that seems gross.
India Jackson (18:26): Someone said, it's almost like if you're fully 100% yourself in business, it's more vulnerable because a no feels like a rejection of you rather than your business. And I have to agree with that. I think that one of the things that I see come up when we're working with people on their visibility, and putting themselves out there, putting their ideas out there, or the way that they see the world, is there can become this weird blurring the lines between you the individual and you the brand. And there needs to be a healthy separation between the two, in my opinion, or we can feel like somebody's opinion of your business now affects how you feel about yourself.
Erica Courdae (19:41): I agree with that. I had this conversation with a family member. Driving by was a construction company or something, and the bumper sticker had a Trump sign on it. And they were like, why do people do that? Nobody needs to do that. Nobody needs to know that. And then on the flip side, I'm like, I want to know that. I need to know so I don't get it. But at the same time, I understand this person's like, I might have been willing to work with you had I not known that. But then you know, I do need to know that, but on the flip side, I don't feel good to not be transparent. Because that's going to be a part of how well this does or does not work. Because if we're not aligned, it's not gonna work.
And this is where I feel like not bringing those pieces is going to impact the outcomes that you sometimes can or can't get. Are there times that maybe you can still get them? It's possible, but I'll say at least, personally for what I do, if I don't know, that is going to affect us. I'm gonna say something and you're gonna be like, whoa, I don't know that I agree with that. And it's like, oh, hell, this is gonna go left real quick.
Someone else said, the more my brand feels aligned with my values, the more grateful I am for my clients because their relationship extends past the service being performed. Noticing a lot more long term connections versus folks who's who I send them a gallery, and that's it. And that is absolutely correct. And I think that there's something to be said, particularly when you have a service that really is intimately entwined in parts of their lives, and how you really do garner relationships in that way. But those relationships also are a large part of referral bases. And I think with creating a business that runs outside of social media that's not dependent on its existence, you need that.
And this is the way that business ran before we had social media. You made relationships and brand alignment was absolutely a piece of that. People were like, I know him. He's a stand up guy. You know, she always shows up. She's so kind. She's funny. She's personable. People identify with those things. But if those relationships aren't fostered, what are we doing? How are we building a business that isn't based on somebody validating you for somebody to go ahead and pick you out to the masses?
India Jackson (22:27): So two things came up from what you just said, in order for someone to say yeah, they're always on time, all these things. It requires making sure that your brand, meaning your reputation, is actually who you say you are, who you want people to believe that you are. And so when we're aligning our brand with our truth, when we are who we say we are, and not just one person over here, another person over there, another person over there... depending on who the client is, they're able to say things like that. The other piece I want to speak to is, there are many different ways to approach selling and marketing. And in those two areas, specificall – when I say marketing, I mean advertising – getting your name out there, promoting what you're selling. And then actually the sales process of how are we facilitating going from brand awareness to closing a sale – though closing feels like such a harsh word to use. But actually securing the sale and facilitating the service or delivering on the product. There are many different ways to approach that.
But I do think it's important to state that if it hasn't been figured out by now, Erica and I do lean very much towards relationship based selling or at least that's what I call it, which means you are selling through building relationships. Rather than, here's my shit, come buy it. No, you're a human, I'm a human, let's get to know each other better and build a relationship. And if this is an aligned relationship, meaning we have some things in common, and we can support each other, you might not need to buy my product or service. But you might know somebody who doesl, you'll go tell them about it when you realize they need it. That's a whole different approach to doing business and running business that, as much as I love our generation for having the internet and social media, it's like they forgot that there are real humans behind accounts. And so that's part of brand alignment, too, is are you treating your social followers? Are you treating your podcast listeners like actual humans? Or are they just a number to you?
Erica Courdae (24:53): Well, what you said I think is important too. Because the way that we happen to do things, and people in our network is we lead with the relationship-based selling. And there's a number of people that don't operate that way. And I've had times that wasn't okay to lead with that. I was kind of told that that's not the primary thing. I've gotten it before when it comes to talking too long to a client and I can't make the sale because we're talking too long. And then you got to send them this and put them in this funnel, and I'm like, no. Damn. I have a friend that's launching this week and she's like, I'm exhausted. This whole launching and the funnels and this and that. Are they things that are sometimes necessary? Yes, but let's acknowledge that if that is where you live, that burns you out. And full transparency, we did a low grade launch for the community back in March before the damn world blew up.
India Jackson (26:08): We did it as the world was blowing up, which felt really weird. Yeah. There's something you said, is that that burns you out. And yes, that burns us out. Because brand alignment. That's not what feels aligned for us. What feels aligned for us is getting to know people and building a deeper, more meaningful relationship. And if they buy something, great. They tell a friend, great. But at least we left an impact on our life and in the way that we showed up. It's maintained what we're here to do. There's somebody else out there, that that's not how they do things, that won't feel aligned, and that won't feel good for them. And that's okay, too. I'm not saying that people who have funnels, or people who do more numbers-based and algorithm-based sales, that that's a bad thing. It's just a matter of again, getting back to brand alignment is knowing your truth. Is that what feels aligned for you to do? Does that support the way that you view the world? Does that support the impact you want to have? And if so, go forth and do that, you know, but if it's not, you're gonna keep burning out and struggle.
Erica Courdae (27:22): I think so much of it is what you said. So I'm gonna agree, what we do isn't for everybody, because some people are like, that's too much people-ing for me, that would burn me out. But I also want to acknowledge that what we do isn't regularly toted as a way to do things front facing. It's not given to you side by side, like a funnel or any other type of selling method. It's really relegated more to networking, versus it being an actual like selling/marketing or promotional way of doing things. And that's where I'm like, okay, where are where you're not giving the options to allow people to stay aligned within what feels good to them, what they're doing, who they want to do it for, and what that looks like. I feel like there's something that gets missed when it's not offered as an alternative. It's just kind of like, nope, don't do this. You have to do it this way, or it doesn't matter. Fuck your formula. I'm not doing it.
India Jackson (28:29): And so that brings me to one of the messy middle pieces of brand alignment. Many times when we're taking the time to figure out what is our truth, How do we want to do things, what's the impact that we want to have, as an individual and as a brand and as a business? Many times you will find that you are having to create the wheel because it doesn't exist. And there's something to be said about that. If you know that you're here to do things differently, if you know that you are here to provide a new solution to a problem that you've seen over and over again, or to service a different demographic that hasn't gotten that much service or attention that maybe they deserve to have, then seeking traditional advice and formulas is not going to get you there.
And I will also say that it can feel like a messy middle process because you are literally creating something where there may not be any examples to go off of. And that requires us to get true in ourselves. That requires us to rely on our intuition. And then if we have things like stress, trauma – individual trauma or collective trauma, which is what I think a lot of people are experiencing now due to quarantines and the social justice movement – then really being able to tap on to your intuition and your creativity can be so much more challenging because it activates a different part of your brain. And it's really hard to access when we're in fight or flight.
Erica Courdae (30:01): So two things there. So I want to acknowledge that it is not easy when you don't have a blueprint for something. So using some of the graphic design services that Flaunt Your Fire does, as an example, if someone is trying to identify what they want for their website design, and they can't find a representation of it, it can sometimes feel like, how do I create something that I don't have a blueprint for? Because it doesn't exist. And it can be a challenging thing to realize you're creating the blueprint, you are the blueprint, and that sometimes can make your imposter syndrome want to pop up like wait, but maybe it doesn't exist because it's not supposed to. No, it's just that you are doing it. Your particular way of putting together your ideas around things have gotten you to this point. And India just mentioned that for us, that fourth f that I've gotten introduced to that now I see everywhere and I'm kind of obsessed with it, is in addition to fight, flight, freeze, fawn is the last one. And so it's that place where, I'm gonna do all the things that I think I have to because I don't know how to ask right now. That's not brand alignment.
When we started, some of what we do separately and a lot of what we do together, there was no blueprint. And so a lot of people couldn't wrap their brains around what we were doing and they were like, why don't you just do this? Or I don't understand. And there were a lot of points where it was like, are we on the right track? Did we miss something? And then all of a sudden, it was like somebody hit the switch. And everybody's like, wait, I get it. And I'm like, thank you! Because I've been trying to explain this for so long. And it's not an easy thing. But the path of least resistance would have been to be less aligned, because it would be easier to explain and to quantify to someone else. It wouldn't have felt good. But that would have been the easier path to take.
India Jackson (32:44): Yeah, I firmly believe that if you are bumping up against the process of aligning your brand, and you're asking for support in visual things and written things and hiring – whatever those pieces are that you are now working on in your alignment – and they're met with confusion. They're making you explain yourself over and over again. They're met with, can you go find me some examples and you're finding no examples. That probably means you're on the right track. It's not going to feel good in the moment. But I can tell you that it probably means you're on the right track to actually fully aligning yourself with your truth. Because there's only one you. There's only one of your business. So to be able to find tons of examples out there of exactly what you're trying to do, probably means that you're attempting to live someone else's truth.
Erica Courdae (33:44): And so there's something to be said about that. Because again, it's easier to go with what already exists than to try to recreate the wheel. And at some point, you're not even trying to recreate the wheel. You're making the hoverboard, or whatever the thing is that doesn't already exist. Being an innovator in any way, shape or form, like large scale, small scale – and I don't say that to say that it doesn't mean as much, but for someone that maybe doesn't feel like, I'm not Elon Musk, whatever – it's just the sense of doing something that's outside of that can feel like, who am I? What am I doing? Is this for me to do? And we've been so conditioned to not listen to our intuition and to follow what feels good, and what is aligned and what what is your truth that we question it so deeply, and we have trouble being able to even get to that point of considering that it's not only possible, likely, and feasible, but the actual now let me go do the thing. Like that's a lot.
India Jackson (34:58): When you think about doing the thing, I was looking at that too, a question posed was, is it even possible that you and your brand might have different values that they align to? And I'm going to say absolutely. Absolutely, these are probably different values. There may be some overlap. And there are some similarities. But most times, there are some differences as well. For example, maybe you've heard us use it before, but our brands don't speak about being eco friendly, which now I'm going to have the question because we've mentioned it a few times. But when you look at our list of brand values, it's not there because it is not the top of the food chain, and what we feel like we were put here on earth, our brands are put here into the world to do. Now, Erica cuts up straws, and when I am putting together our client gifts, you know, we're using crinkle paper instead of plastic, or using cardboard boxes. I use glass containers and reusable jugs and water bottles, you know.
But with that said, it doesn't necessarily make sense to consistently in our messaging, mention these things for our brands, because your brand is more than just what you're doing. It's also what you're saying and how you show up. Because that's confusing, right? And so when we think about looking at brand values, I am a big component of saying you start here – and I know you are too, Erica – because if we are going to start to work with a writer, or strategist, or designer or anyone else, people who have experience in HR to help you align your brand, in order to get them to go from trying to put you back into the wheel that's already been invented, and really work with you on innovating the hoverboard, they need to know where you're coming from. What are these values? What is this bigger intention and purpose that we were trying to do? And in order to get it to be a little bit more digestible – I don't like that this is the truth, but it is the truth – we have to pare those things down to no more than six most important things.
Erica Courdae (37:23): Well, but I also feel like there's sometimes a little bit of duality to it. If you're thinking about podcasting, efficiency is important with something like that. But in your life, you really like things to be more full and fleshed out and have all these nuances to it and like you enjoy conversations that just go on forever. And that don't even have to have a point, but you enjoy the process. Those don't necessarily seem like they're the same because one doesn't facilitate you being able to do what needs to happen in your your job or your business quickly and efficiently. And it's not the best use of resources in that way. But you might not move in that same type of efficiency focused way in your life. So I think that there can be that space of, what does this look like, within a business capacity? And what does this look like in living my life capacity? I think it's important to have both because you don't have to be unilateral and choose one.
India Jackson (38:40): Absolutely. Just because a brand's value is not environmental friendliness, doesn't mean that we are not peppering that into some of the decisions that we're making within our business. That doesn't mean that we're not carefully considering, for example, those client gifts. But at the same time, when I think of what are you deciding as far as your brand values versus your personal values? I also like to look at what are the deal breakers? What are the things that if you didn't have this as a requirement of how you are moving through life as a business or as this brand, and that were not a complete match with your clients, would make it incredibly uncomfortable and if not impossible to service them?
Erica Courdae (39:25): Mm hmm. And that's where that goes back to what we talked about before, those things that I feel like it helps to know those things about people to decide whether or not it's even a good idea or not to work together. That's where I think that those things are important. If you believe in healing looking like more than going to the doctor and taking a pill that was prescribed to you, then going to somebody that you know is in alternative health, that's not going to be a good fit. Because you're diametrically opposed on a fundamental level. That doesn't work. That does not work at all. I don't know why people missed it. I feel like that's a common thing to be missed, at least that's me. I feel like so often,these are these core pieces. These are non negotiables. These are not up for debate. But those are the things that we push back. Those are the things that we put out the way and we don't acknowledge. Why are we hiding that? I can't wrap my brain around it.
India Jackson (40:36): I think that's the old program and part of the current program. I'd like to believe that the new program is letting go of that. But the new program and way of thinking is that consumers absolutely want to know your values, that consumers are absolutely looking to see that you are who you say you are at all times. And of course being human and having humans working for your business. They're gonna have good days and bad days. But you're not suddenly a different set of values, suddenly a whole nother person. And I like to think that we're moving away from putting people into the societal box and into fitting into that wheel. And really moving into a place where individuality is appreciated. It's accepted and celebrated.
Well, part of that hope is what we're doing here and being able to support others with giving them permission to be on board with that and say that they're not crazy. And let them know that that process is not going to be a point A to point B. There'll be some messy middle with a lot of emotions that come up, and feelings and things to heal. But part of the hope is also deciding to pave the way for the future we want to see.
Erica Courdae (42:14): Agree, agree. Okay. Question. For me better serving the LGBTQIA+ community and it's many intersects – thank you so much for acknowledging that – and lifting up those clients is one of my focuses of brand alignment. At the same time, my brand is personal and relationship based as well. So I struggle with imposter syndrome since I do not identify as LGBTQIA+, so I don't feel worthy. taking up space. What advice do you have for folks who might relate?
India Jackson (43:14): Quite a few things come to mind for me. Number one, you do not have to be a part of a demographic of people in order to support the demographic of people, in order to raise awareness about their needs. And absolutely, your voice is needed. Absolutely. We need you to take up space. Now, there are some caveats that I know Erica will speak on. For me, one of the things that stands out is making sure that when you are taking up space, it's never stealing the spotlight for them to be able to speak their own truth. But the reason I say that there's absolutely space and worthiness to take up that space is because there's someone else out there that will never listen to a person that that identifies as that, because they hate them. And I'd like to think that we don't live in a world like that. But we do. There are people out there that will hate me because my skin is black, and I have a vagina. And the world that we live in, and so I need people to be able to take up space that don't look like me, because somebody else will listen to them before they listen to me. And I just want to remind you that every single time you have that opportunity to take up space and knowing that you're not taking space away from someone else that you want to be an ally to, you are creating opportunity to bring awareness to somebody whose ears might have otherwise been closed.
Erica Courdae (44:51): All of that. And the interesting thing is that specific question is very related to my allyship in that that is the group that I consider myself to be an ally for. Is there a space for my allyship to be fuller? Yes. Because I also understand that feeling of, am I you know my doing enough? Can I call myself that? And I know very well being a black woman how support for me rings louder – and it's not a truth that I'm happy about, but it's a truth – it rings louder when it would come from someone like you. And so understanding that I know that there is weight in my words when I say that it is not okay for someone from the LGBTQIA+ community to not be able to take – using the wedding industry as an example – being able to get married, knowing that they can go get their engagement photos and notfeel awkward. Knowing that nobody is going to feel weird when they show up with their partner. And they're either the same sex or maybe someone is non binary, whatever it is, someone's gonna be like, oh, I don't know that I want to do this. And now you have this awkward situation.
And so I think that it is my duty, so to speak, to actually say this is for me to speak to because I don't belong to this group. And so therefore, me saying, this just hones in the fact that like, it has nothing to do with me. And that's exactly why I'm saying it because I can see that it's wrong. I don't have to have it affect me don't understand that. I can still see that it's wrong, Wrong is wrong. And so that is that is a thing. I think that it's important in the same way with everything that's happened when we speak about George Floyd, that a lot of the amplification that's happening in the protests and in the awareness that is showing up right now through different actions, it's ringing different because it is very diverse. And it's not all just black people doing it.
I don't remember where I read it, but when this person asked me for help, I was silent. And then when I needed help, there was no one to help. And so there's this place of, I'm going to support because I know that the way that things work right now is that at some point, I will need that support. And I don't do it from a place of reciprocity, I do it because it's the right thing to do. I do it because it's not okay for you to have to be in that place. And so I don't do it because I'm looking for anything, don't look at me. It's about, look at what needs to happen. Look at where equity needs to spring up. And I think that that's so important. And validation, or, can I should I? Now, if it's self-serving, that's a different thing, but it has to happen. And again, I always use the example of animals because we seem to be able to agree on that one. If you saw a dog being abused, you would speak up and you'd be okay with it. We have to have that same type of compassion for each other more often than what I see it happening. I don't see it as as readily available. As I wish it was.
India Jackson (49:02): And what comes to mind for me with that, I think one of the unique things about brand values that are rooted in allyship and in justice, and equity and diversity and inclusion, it's really challenging for that to just be a business decision. That is the one area where almost every time, it's personal too. And that's okay. And that's a beautiful thing. And so, in realizing part of that question to assess that piece, it's great that it's personal, because, you know, sometimes we can do different things in our personal lives as far as creating impact than we can in our business.
Erica Courdae (49:52): But I think that there's something to be said about the personal piece showing up when we talk about brand alignment, because it means that you have have a different level of buy in, and a different level of what maybe feels like responsibility within this. And I think that it takes away some of the transactional thing that can happen with business. And that I think has shown up with social media swallowing everything up. I don't feel like things – I'm not gonna say was never transactional, but there's something in my mind of, when you got your vacuum cleaner from the guy down the street, whose kids go to school with yours. You know, that was a different level of, I don't want to sell you crap. Your kid might beat up my kid. Like my wife's gonna see you at the Tupperware party, whatever. There's something to be said about being more invested in delivering something that is truly of service and support. Because you are invested in the outcome of it, and not just this, I give you this, you give me money, and we go our separate ways. And that's it.
I think that there is something else when the success of these things in some way, shape or form, can directly influence and impact you that you feel differently about it. And so when you're interacting with other business owners, and everybody's separate, and nobody's on the same page, and nobody knows anybody, and nobody gives a shit. That's a problem. But when you get people that are invested, and they're working toward similar goals, and they're able to show up as individuals, and they actually are invested in change making and goals that are bigger than self. There's something to be said about how that can shift things. Do I think that the transactional thing should just go away? I mean, I think that there are some things that maybe don't feel as relationship oriented on the surface. If you need to go get gas, you need to go get gas, I get it. But then there's also still that place of like, if you think about fuel, does it impact the environment? You might not see it in the same way, I still think they're there. So I never want anyone to think like, oh, I gotta be a bleeding heart about this. No, but this is where I think it's important to think outside of what this looks like. And I do think that there's very few things in this life that we live in, that don't in some way, shape or form, have impact that is bigger than self.
India Jackson (52:45): Absolutely. Every decision we're making has an impact. Whether we're willing to take the time and effort to see that or not. I want to acknowledge that full brand alignment is a lot of time. It's lot of effort, it's a lot of decision making. And it can be a complete rabbit hole. I mean, something as simple as you know, like we were talking about earlier what gifts you give your clients, you can just go buy a premade gift box with decisions done for you, quick and easy. Making the decision of every single thing and making your own client gift – and I share that because it's something that we've been working on recently – it requires a lot more time, a lot more effort and research.
Erica Courdae (53:34): It’s what do you lose, and what do you gain?
India Jackson (53:42): Absolutely. But I can tell you at the end of the day, but it's worth it when you know that the things that people aren't receiving are things that they're going to truly enjoy and use and not just be more trash, which is what a lot of client gifts can be – not to get too far off subject – but also is exposing them to brands that are actually creating an impact in the world. And so when you look at something that starts off so simple as, what do I give my clients as a thank you? And you expand on that and say that I'm working with my clients in a way where I'm helping them create bigger impact in the world and create social change. And then I'm also gifting them brands that create more social change. And then those brands are working with suppliers to create their products that create social change and get outside of the whole sweatshop model. How much change is actually possible with one small decision?
Erica Courdae (54:41): Agree. All right. I don't see any other questions unless they pop up in the next few seconds. I think we'll go ahead and wrap up. First of all, thank you, everyone that has actually shown up from the community here and has been a part of this conversation. Ooh, I like fired up. Fired up makes me happy. I love when people are like, I'm fired up now! For everyone that's listening in, you're getting to hear the conversation that we're having. This is how we like things to be. We like being able to have dialogue, and we like you being included, so greatly appreciative of everyone that is contributing and listening.
Today, you got to actually be a fly on the wall and listen in to why we do what we do, and why it's so important. You heard what it was to have a conversation that was co created. It wasn't just about us talking. This was other people in the room that said, hey, I want to be a part of this. And I want to hear your take on this and let's talk about it. Collaboration is a building block for our community, creating a safe space that includes trainings, conversations, relationship building, and understanding the value and what we provide separately. But how much more valuable and impactful it is together. We're here to create and build relationships that can turn into shared business, referrals, networking and an opportunity to leverage our reach and impact to expand the ethical marketplace. So if you want to learn more, go on over to pauseontheplay.com/community. You can apply and you too can be a part of the room. As always, I love knowing that you are here, you are listening, and you are ready to be a part of the change that you want to see. So be sure to join us next time and until then, keep the dialogue going.