206. Letting Go of Perfectionism in Goal-Setting with Betsaida Lebron
Human-Centered Goals
Goal-setting can bring out the perfectionist in many of us.
When our goals don’t account for our imperfect humanity, it leads to burnout and feeling like a failure. Getting stuck in the mentality that there is one course of action or one right way to do things doesn’t honor what we learn and experience along the way, even when things don’t go to plan.
Betsaida Lebron joins Erica to discuss setting J.A.N.K.Y goals that allow for imperfection, changing course, and getting outside of your comfort zone to make real change.
Listen on your favorite podcast player or keep reading to learn:
How improv and play can help you manage fear and get outside your comfort zone
Setting goals that account for your humanity and capacity
How perfectionism in goal-setting holds us back
Why changing course doesn’t mean starting over
How making sure your goals are aligned with your values helps you shape real change
Empowering Individuals to Own Their Strengths
Betsaida LeBron is an experienced business consultant and the founder of ImprovEQ. With over 15 years of experience in mental health, she is a certified emotional intelligence coach specializing in people management, team communication, and creating positive work cultures. As a facilitator and improv comedian, she adds humor to her work and challenges people to find more joy in their professional lives. Betsaida empowers individuals to own their strengths and insecurities, and her passion for creating positive work environments has made her a sought-after consultant for organizations seeking to transform their teams.
Improv and Relearning Play
On the Pause on the Play® podcast, Betsaida Lebron (she/her) says that one thing not everyone knows about her is that she is part of an improv group called the Masters of Rap Improv. One of their favorite things to do at a show is to ask the audience for something they’ve never heard a rap about and freestyle something on the spot.
Erica recalls doing improv at Alt Summit in 2020 and while she had a great time with it, she knows that she could easily have said she couldn’t do it, because it can be scary.
Betsaida says that she has stuck with improv because “there’s a freedom in it. Because we live so much of our lives in fear, like that’s just how a lot of these structures are designed around us to keep us in a place of fear. And for me, the opposite of fear is play and improv…Improv is just a way of helping you realize that hey, we’re all kind of making this up and you can just have fun.”
Erica adds that improv can be a key to “a lot of the things that really keep us locked away and hidden within ourselves.”
Betsaida agrees. She says that many of her clients are highly technical teams and part of her job is teaching them how to play. They can be skeptical at first, and think that play is just for kids, “and I’m like, no, this is for you. Kids know how to do it. You’re the ones who have forgotten how to do it, that’s why you need this the most…We tell ourselves a lot of lies about what it means to be an adult.”
Erica replies that adulting “can be trash.”
Betsaida adds that one reason kids can rush towards being an adult is a craving for their own power and independence, but if we made more of an effort to give kids some more agency, they probably wouldn’t rush into adulthood.
Erica agrees but says that even when she gives her kids some autonomy, they often ask for more.
J.A.N.K.Y Goals
Erica says that “one of the things that I really try to not embed in my kids…[is] the perfectionism piece…[because] perfectionism is a tool of white supremacy. It is something that is meant to limit us.” She pays attention to how perfectionism might be showing up for her kids and also how it pops up in her own life as she deprograms and dismantles her own perfectionism.
She says that Betsaida introduced her and India Jackson to the concept of J.A.N.K.Y goals as a counterbalance to the perfectionism that can show up in goal-setting.
Betsaida says that she came up with the idea of J.A.N.K.Y goals as a response to witnessing so many people discuss setting S.M.A.R.T goals, particularly at the beginning of the year. She felt like those metrics didn’t work for everybody and that S.M.A.R.T goals could actually be demotivating if a person’s goals didn’t exactly fit the framework, especially when trying to mold goals into a daily, measurable practice.
“There’s a reality of we don’t always have the same capacity…[If you’re] stumbling forward, you’re still going forward.”
She explains that the acronym J.A.N.K.Y stands for:
J: Journey-focused
A: Aligned with your values
N: Nourishing
K: Kick ass
Y: Yo-yo plan
She clarifies that kick-ass means that your goals are something you’re genuinely excited about. And the yo-yo plan aspect is making a plan for continuing to move towards your goals even as your energy and capacity shift and viewing actions with a lens of what makes sense on a high-energy day or a low-energy day.
Erica says that making your goals values-aligned is so important because “I don’t want to be on a path that I don’t want to be on.” She also agrees that it’s simply not realistic to expect yourself to have the same output and productivity day in and day out.
Betsaida says that the mentality of constant, consistent productivity is a setup for burnout and that we have to have compassion for ourselves and the ways we naturally fluctuate.
Setting unrealistic expectations is also a recipe for beating yourself up when things don’t go to plan.
“If you’re showing up thinking that you have to be perfect, then every little setback knocks you all the way off and you don’t even feel like trying.”
Letting Go of Perfectionism and Getting to the Next Level
Betsaida says that she refers to J.A.N.K.Y goals as goal-setting for imperfect people.
“It starts with that recognition that we are not perfect. That’s what it means to be human…And from that space of knowing that you’re human and giving yourself permission, but still wanting to move forward.”
She says that she’s a recovering perfectionist herself, and would put pressure on herself to show up in very specific ways in the spaces she was in.
“And then when I started working, that message comes in even harder about what’s acceptable and what’s not acceptable.”
She says improv has been helpful for her in letting go of perfectionism because “you learn, oh, I can make mistakes, I can fail, I can fall on my face and I survive.”
Over time, she realized that she could want to improve herself and be the best version of herself possible while holding space for imperfection.
Once she got to that place, she wanted to figure out a way to share that thought with others, especially witnessing so many people get frustrated with themselves around goal-setting.
Erica adds that this framework leaves room for ongoing goals. “It’s not an, oh, I did and now I’m done…There’s always gonna be a quote-unquote upper level that you’re gonna hit.”
Betsaida compares that aspect to beating a boss level in a video game and realizing that you still have more levels to play.
“[The game] keeps going. I just keep leveling up. The challenge keeps coming, but now I know I have the skills from the last level to beat this next one that’s coming up.”
Changing Course
When it comes to reevaluating your goals or changing course, Betsaida says it really depends on the person whether they amend their existing goals or go back to the drawing board, but the key is not to be overly rigid.
She compares it to setting the course for a ship, but realizing that you don’t control the waters or the currents. When things shift, you have to figure out if you’re still heading in the same direction, and if that’s the journey you still want to be on.
It’s important to have “a clarity of where you’re trying to go, and then also if it’s aligned with your values, that’s the part that keeps you motivated to find a different way.”
She continues, “I’m for adjusting and noticing, but if you feel like you gotta start over, give yourself credit for the fact that you’re never starting over. You’re just starting from here, and here is already past where you started.”
There’s value in the lessons learned and the experience gained on a path that didn’t work out.
Erica agrees that you’re never really starting over from scratch. “When you just want to throw it away with, ‘I’m starting over,’ it is in a sense dishonoring everything that influenced you up until this point and then deciding that you don’t wanna take it with you.”
Betsaida adds that this is another way that perfectionism shows up. “Perfectionism tells us that if we didn’t do it the exact way we intended, that perfect way, that none of it’s worth it.”
And Erica says that’s just not how change happens.
Letting white supremacy culture and perfectionism “tell you that this is the only way that this can be done…it’s dishonoring your desire to truly make change, because that is not how change is made. Change is made through experimentation.”
Your Values Don’t Live in Your Comfort Zone
Betsaida says that change is scary because the outcome is uncertain, but that improv can teach us that change is less scary when we let go of perfectionism. And letting go takes practice.
She says that fear doesn’t mean that you’re actually in danger, it’s just a warning and an opportunity to evaluate the situation and decide what’s true.
“But a lot of times, stepping outside of your comfort zone requires you to embrace the fear, and that’s the only way that we grow.”
It’s like going to the gym, she says, where you want to feel the workout and be aware of a little discomfort, but not push yourself so hard that you injure yourself.
Erica adds, “The fear is not about the scariest possible thing, it is just about the getting out of that comfort zone and not doing the easiest, most comfortable, low-hanging fruit thing all the time…You gotta work.”
She says that especially in the last few years, many people have gotten into a bubble, and it is beneficial to examine what you’re doing and not doing and where you’ve gotten comfortable to the point of complacency.
Betsaida adds that “your values don’t live in your comfort zone…Staying comfortable actually ends up being soul-sucking…People don’t always think about that part, it’s just the immediate discomfort. But what you believe, your values, that passion…that doesn’t exist in your comfort zone. It can’t.”
Get Curious
Betsaida says that approaching goal-setting and getting out of your comfort zone from a place of curiosity goes a long way.
She compares it to the energy of a cat that’s set in its ways and a dog that’s super excited about new things.
“Can I shake a little tail and be like, okay, I’m gonna get outside my comfort zone. Give yourself that little pep shakeup, and just take little, small, imperfect steps.”
Ready to dive deeper?
We’ve been conditioned to show up to work as our “professional” self and leave our personal beliefs behind. But the truth is, values inform every area of our life, so why try to compartmentalize?
Each month in The Pause on the Play® Community we explore one specific way to make your values more explicit. Our curated connections and learning experiences will help you challenge harmful norms, show up as an imperfect ally®, and live in alignment.
Learn more at pauseontheplay.com/community