66. Now What? Your Brand After the Black Square
In episode 66 of the Pause on the Play podcast, co-hosts Erica Courdae and India Jackson discuss what comes next in your DEI and brand visibility journey after the trendy moments (#blackouttuesday) are over.
People seem to be paralyzed by fear and over-analysis when no one is telling them what to do or say now that the Instagram black square moment is over. India and Erica explain that some of this inaction is due to the fear of being called out and canceled online. But they emphasize that as long as you’re willing to listen and admit you don’t know anything, you’re not likely to get canceled.
As the world, you, your brand, and your audience evolve, so will your values and what you publicly stand for. That’s why they recommend reevaluating periodically, and finding support with a community.
Are you ready to listen in? Here’s what’s happening in this episode:
[01:14] People are wondering, in the light of recent and current events, what comes next? What’s our next move? What do I lead with? But there is no 'one thing’ that will solve everything.
[03:46] Looking for the ‘one thing’ to do is too much like taking the easy way. But there isn’t an easy way. You can’t undo generations of harm and trauma with ‘one thing.’
[06:27] When you ignore your intuition and just do what the crowd is doing, like posting the black squares on Instagram, ask yourself why you’re doing it. Don’t do it just because you’re afraid of being called out or canceled.
[08:40] People get canceled after multiple offenses where people tried to correct them, but they dug their heels in and didn’t listen. It doesn’t typically happen after one single post, or one misstep.
{09:30] Two well-known women with large platforms – Marie Forleo and Jenna Kutcher – are recent examples of call out and cancel culture. They shut down conversation about the pain of the Black community, or they participated in victim-blaming and arguments.
[15:00] Problematic behavior is exacerbated when the offender keeps talking, trying to defend themselves, instead of listening.
[18:09] You’ve still got to sell. You still need to earn a living. You can talk about and act on your values while selling and earning an income. It’s not either/or!
[20:09] A SOP (standard operating procedure) can’t help you or your brand in times of major cultural/societal shifts, chaos, and crisis. As the world, you, your brand, your audience evolve, you need to be able to use your voice without having to rely on SOP.
[23:25] You have to be willing to admit you don’t know it all, that you will always be learning. And you have to be willing to show that publicly if you’re going to take a stand for your values. It’s essential to have and keep a beginner’s mind.
[26:01] You will probably have to reevaluate multiple times what your values are, what you care about, and what you speak about publicly. Because what matters now probably didn’t matter five years ago, and what matters now will change in five years. Or sooner!
[29:24] Sometimes people feel stuck because fear paralyzes them. Your brain and body process fear of being chased and eaten by a bear the same way they process the fear of being canceled on social media, so it’s important to have a calm, safe space where you can decompress.
WHAT’S ONE ACTION YOU CAN TAKE AWAY FROM THE DISCUSSION?
“Yes, we – allies in general – need to be in a spirit of listening. And you also still need to use your voice. So at some point you have to transition out of a place of, ‘I’m only going to do what I was told to do, or shoulded on myself to do’ – like the black square – to, ‘I can listen and use my voice.’” – India Jackson
QUOTES
“I've seen this be a thing for a while. There is no one thing you can go do to unravel generations and generations of programming. There's no one thing for that. There's no Band-aid that's gonna fix your gunshot wound.” – India Jackson
“I'm gonna say that while I can't list out everything you were afraid of, I'm gonna say that one of the main things that I hear people being afraid of right now, is that whole concept of being called out and cancel culture.” – Erica Courdae
“Allies in general need to be in a spirit of listening. And you also still need to use your voice. So at some point you have to transition out of a place of ‘I’m only going to do what I was told to do, or shoulded on myself to do’ – like the black square – to ‘I can listen and use my voice.”’” – India Jackon
“You have to begin to navigate and dig into, what does it look like to my business, my brand, my company, how my products look, how I'm talking to my audience, my community, all these things. They're evolving. And we are moving toward a place of being more ethical internally and front-facing. And so, quote unquote, pardon our dust, or bear with us as we work through what this looks like so that our ethics don't end up either not showing up, or being this separate thing from the business. We want them to be together. “ – Erica Courdae
“A wise man knows that they know nothing, that they still have a world to learn about. But I think that many of us are having trouble stepping into that place of, I'm still figuring this out, or I'm beginning to figure this out. And I hope that you can stick around to see what this looks like for our brand, as we integrate diversity into our brand, or as we integrate whatever value it is – eco friendly, Trans Lives Matter – something. Some people struggle because I think some people are holding on to needing to look like they know everything and like they have it all figured out.” – India Jackson
“You need that community. There’s something about doing that on your own, that it not only can kind of silo you out, and you’re just singular in it. You don’t get any context. It can be scary. So you need that space to be able to have that support. And somebody else is like, ‘I get it. I’m going through that, too. It’s okay. We can do this.’” – Erica Courdae
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Transcript
Erica Courdae (00:00): So I talk a lot about imperfection. And this is one of those examples that I want you to know, guess what? Shit happens, but sometimes the show must go on. So this podcast was recorded and we had some tech issues. However, the content is extremely important, and I'm not going to keep that from being brought to you because well, tech happens. So even though the audio is not our normal quality, keep listening. get what you need from it. Be in action.
Erica Courdae (00:40): Hello, hello and welcome back to Pause On the Play. As always, it is amazing to see you here where you are challenged to examine your beliefs, question your predisposed notions, and consider realities you may be unfamiliar with in order to understand that they are real. I am your host and conversation emcee for the day, Erica Courdae, here along with my co-host India Jackson, to get the dialogue going.
So, Miss India…
India Jackson (01:08): Yes, ma’am…
Erica Courdae (01:14): Okay, so again, this is one of those times where we're talking and it's like, oh, this needs to be talked about on the podcast. So I'm having a lot of conversations that have some additional layers, I think kind of being pulled back from what I would normally do, in the sense of people really feeling like, "What do I need to know, what do I need to do now? What's next?" And I think that it's a pertinent question, to begin to figure out what's the next thing? What's the next action? What am I talking about? What am I leading with? I think in that way, it's a good thing.
However, comma, there is this space of, what's next in the way of, "just tell me the thing to do." There are some people that are looking for permission, and they're literally looking for this thing that is going to make it all better. It's going to outsource all the labor, and this will be all easy. And all the black and brown people will be good. And we don't have to worry about it. That shit don't exist. That's not a thing.
India Jackson (02:37): Yeah, if you believe that, that's not real.
Erica Courdae (02:41): Somebody sold you some magic beans, I need you to go get your money back. So, there's this place that I really do think that people mean well and I think they want to do better. And so just like if you take a workshop or something, or you're in a some kind of course you're like, "Okay, what's the thing? What do I now go do?" But I think what's happening is people are looking for this one thing in a way that it feels like a check the block. It feels like, "Just tell me the thing. Why are you holding it back?" Yo, I'm not holding anything back. You know that that shit don't exist, right?
India Jackson (03:27): I've seen this be a thing for a while. There is no one thing you can go do to unravel generations and generations of programming. There's no one thing for that. There's no Band-aid that's gonna fix your gunshot wound.
Erica Courdae (03:46): Well, there's no one thing even in the marketing that – you do some advertising for some of your clients around. Now, do I think that what you do is bigger than just marketing? Absolutely. But it's like with marketing, it's like, "Okay, how do I fix this?" Uh, that's not how that works. Or "How do I market?" Hmm, that's not a question. Everybody's looking for the easy way. And I don't even know if it's because they don't want to put in the work because maybe they think they missed the easy part. Maybe they thought they took the hard way and now they're looking for the easy way. But there isn't one.
India Jackson (04:22): Well, and I think that when we go through something that is very emotional, very traumatic, very life-altering, and the powers-that-be of social media tell us the one thing to do, which is to go post your black square, and use – whoever said this, they were wrong for that – but use hashtag Black Lives Matter.
Erica Courdae (04:49): You're about to give me PTSD with that because I'm gonna tell you... Ooh, that was a lot and that was an example of – I don't know if there was miscommunication or lack of clarity and communication – that was a fucking shit show.
India Jackson (05:09): But can we talk about that for a second? I think it's relevant. So the reason why there is no one thing, and the reason why this misconception that there is a standard thing to go do to create change, or to become a better version of yourself, or to let go of your money mindset woes, or whatever it is – that misconception that there's just one thing you can go do that's going to fix everything is problematic and dangerous. Problematic at best, dangerous at worst.
I can clearly see the example of that being when we saw people putting up that black square, and using the hashtag Black Lives Matter. And I think that if we didn't have this mentality of, "Just show me the pne thing and I'll go do it," that would have never happened.
And part of the reason that was able to happen is because people weren't thinking for themselves. They weren't curious. They weren't questioning, "Okay, I see everyone else doing this. But does it make sense for me? Why are they doing this? Okay, if they're doing this because they want to show support, is it actually going to get the results that they're looking for?" Nobody asked any questions. They just did shit.
Erica Courdae (06:27): Mm hmm. And I think what you said is an important piece of it. Nobody asked any questions. Nobody asked questions. And then once it happened – I'm gonna point this out as well, because I think that this was important. I had a number of people after the fact they were like, "Yeah, it felt funny. But I just thought that was what I was supposed to do." And so the intuition, that gut, Buddha, Allah, whoever it is saying, "Hey!" And you still did it anyway because you were afraid. I'm gonna say that while I can't list out everything you were afraid of, I'm gonna say that one of the main things that I hear people being afraid of right now, is that whole concept of being called out and cancel culture.
India Jackson (07:13): Okay, now for the new people here that may not know what cancel culture is…
Erica Courdae (07:20): Okay, so, first of all, the whole calling out thing is just somebody being like, “Ooh, what are you doing? That’s not okay.” We saw a lot of that happening. But the cancel culture is when you either did something that was so problematic or so harmful, that people are like, “Oh, I’m done. I’m deleting you. I’m unfollowing you. I’m about to put you on blast and call you out and tell everybody how terrible you are. I might call you a dirty racist. I’m gonna basically tell you how you’re a trash human.”
And for some people it will go that far. They were like, “You as a human are garbage.” But as a general statement, it’s just somebody being like, “You did something terrible. You need to go. We don’t want to give you our money. We don’t want to talk about you. We don’t want to see you. You’re not invited to the cookout, you have to go.”
So, people are shook. Nobody wants to be called out like this. Nobody wants to be canceled. Nobody wants to worry about, How is this gonna affect me? Mentally, physically, emotionally, financially." Now, I think it's worth acknowledging though, that some of the people that were in a place of getting canceled? They did a whole lot of fuck shit to get there. This was not just, "I put up one post. And I misspoke."
This was not "I didn't frame that as well." This is not "I didn't know, and I apologize, but the damage was still done and I'm just gonna have to let the dust settle." This is "Oh my gosh, I did something terrible and now I'm gonna make you feel like a terrible human because you called me out. Didn't you know that I was a good one?" And I wish I could say I was paraphrasing.
India Jackson (09:20): For the people that live under a rock, could you give us a more clear example of that?
Erica Courdae (09:30): So, if I'm not mistaken, this was the weekend after George Floyd was murdered, and Marie Forleo had a lot of issues. I have never purchased from Ms. Forleo. So therefore, I am not in to have seen what happened in these groups. I have never given her my money. She just hasn't resonated with me. And this is not to say anything bad about her. She just hasn't. Everybody doesn't resonate with everyone.
So anyway, there were some Black women that had given her their money, one of which was Rachel Rodgers, and Rachel was heated with how all of these things played out. And in my opinion, she had every right to be, because as the narrative goes, people had issues. I think some some comments got turned off, some deleting was happening. And there was a lot of, "Yeah, we're off. We're not talking about this." It got real ugly. And so it puts people in a place of like, "Oh, so you can take my money, but you can't talk about this because you think this isn't business related, when it comes down to it. I see how this goes."
And people were calling her out everywhere possible. People were very vocal about their disdain of her actions. And the reality is that her platform is set up in a way where she is the face of her platform, but she's got a platform. And so what she stood for, represented, and what she markets, people were hot about her actions behind that.
So people are like, "I don't want that. I don't want to have somebody go on a Facebook rant for 20 minutes and talk about how terrible I am. I don't want people talking about how awful my actions were. I don't want Facebook and Instagram being lit up with my fuckery. Can I just fuck up in private please?" And I had the privilege and the benefit of saying when I was was younger, I didn't have my shit on blast on Instagram or Facebook. I had them in anonymity. Ms. Forleo did not. And she's not the only one. She went through things. Jenna Kutcher went through some. That was a bad one, too.
And hers involved a lot of victim shaming, "I didn't do this. You don't know me and I can't believe you thought this about me." And it's like, oh, so now you want to make me feel bad because you did this fuck shit? Okay. And this is not about me calling out any particular person. But what both of them did was problematic at best and I have no problem talking to either one of them. Just saying. You can at me if you need to.
I'm saying that because I'm not saying this under the guise of, you don't know me and I can say this. I'm saying it because I stand behind how I feel about it and what my take is on it. What they did was problematic. People weren't okay with it. And it was done at a point that people were already traumatized. And what you got was the full hell ring of people being like, "So you want to make me watch a video of a man being murdered for eight minutes and 46 seconds. And now here you come with this? You about to get all this rage."
And so that's what happened. And so unfortunately part of it is because people are traumatized.
India Jackson (13:24): So if you're listening, and you didn't know anything about some of those things, or you found some new details, or you're like "Rachel Rodgers who?" You are not alone. I live under a rock, too. Go do a little bit of Google after this episode. Also, I think that as I am hearing some pieces of this for the first time – I knew about others.
I can totally understand why people are afraid of being cancelled. But what I'm also hearing is that these are people who did more than one thing wrong. Not only did they put their foot in their mouth. But then they didn't apologize. And just leave it at that and then shut up and listen. And so if you're in this place where you're listening, and you're afraid of being cancelled, it takes a lot to get there. It has to be the perfect shitstorm of you still putting your foot in your mouth over and over again. Just stop. I don't think the average person is going to do that.
Erica Courdae (14:29): No, these were two examples of two people that have large platforms that did not get the memo that listening is going to be key to this playing out in a way that does not get you cancelled. I always use this euphemism so you're gonna deal with it. You will get your invitation to the cookout rescinded for the next three months, but you can come back after that. Somebody might bring you a plate.
India Jackson (14:59): Maybe.
Erica Courdae (15:00): I like that one. Sorry, I do. I think that’s the thing, the biggest thing, was that nobody was listening. It was so much “I have to keep talking, I have to defend this. I have to tell you why this is right. I have to tell you why you’re not seeing my point of view.” And anybody that’s ever been in any kind of discourse can understand, if you look at it from the outside-in, what happens at that point where you or someone else that is involved in it, you can watch this train wreck of, “Oh my gosh, if you had shut up like five minutes earlier, this could have looked very different.”
India Jackson (15:37): But you just kept talking.
Erica Courdae (15:40): Right? And so there was just this point of, it has to stop somewhere. And you was just like, "I done lit this bitch on fire, and I'm going down with it." And it's like, ah, you poor thing. Bless your heart. And so this is where people get afraid. But if you are showing up from a place of "I want to listen. I am not afraid of being wrong. I can learn. I am open to hearing a different point of view. My normal is not the only normal and I can consider something that exists outside of my realm of normal and my frame of reference." That is a very different place to be.
Now that doesn't mean that occasionally you might not eat that Nike a little bit and I told you that. Nike don't come at me. It's gonna happen sometimes. But it is one thing to put your foot in your mouth, it is another to put eight people's feet in your mouth and to be like, “I need more.” So it is okay to make a mistake. It is another to double down and to not be willing to make amends or to see how this can be done differently.
And this is why when people are looking for that one thing, because they're afraid of what's next. Because they're like, "I don't want that to be my what's next." That doesn't have to be. And it's going to be highly unlikely if you are truly in the spirit of listening, that that's going to be your fate. We listened to the whole thing around Glennon Doyle and her having some issues and she came back from that. She did some stuff around just trying to be a good white woman, and she kind of messed up, and then she apologized, and kept going.
India Jackson (17:37): I think that’s the thing, too. Yes, we need to be – I’m saying we, but allies in general need to be in a spirit of listening. And you also still need to use your voice. So at some point you have to transition out of a place of “I’m only going to do what I was told to do, or shoulded on myself to do,” like the black square, to “I can listen and use my voice.”
Erica Courdae (18:09): Yes. Well, and you can’t live in amplification and not figure out what happens next. So this is a big one. So I feel like the black square happened. So then I got a whole week of amplifying black voices. And then it was crickets. Because you didn’t know what to do. But you’ve still got a business. you still gotta sell. Those that are like, “Oh I donated!” You can’t donate nothing if your business isn’t making any money, unless you’re independently wealthy, and hey, do you, boo. But your business needs to make money.
And if you have a platform, you want to utilize that platform. But what happens is, I kept seeing people that would amplify black voices for a week and then they didn’t know what was next. To put it bluntly, and I’m oversimplifying just to get the point across – you were selling before, you know what that looked like. You know what it doesn’t look like to amplify black voices and to bring these ethics into what you were marketing online. Okay, these two can go together. What’s next? Stop acting like they’re “or.” They’re “and.”
India Jackson (19:29): I don’t know if they know what it looks like to bring those ethics into their marketing. I think they want to. And I think that they very clearly knew what it looked like to amplify the voices. I think people very clearly know what it looks like to promote and sell their own businesses, whether that’s a product, service, being influencers, or whatever. But I don’t know if they know how to integrate those ethics into the business. And maybe that is where they’re stuck. Maybe that is why both of us are equally getting, “What do I do now? Now what?” Or people fixating on having an SOP of how to handle things. But that SOP of how to handle things –
Erica Courdae (20:09): What’s an SOP?
India Jackson (20:09): Standard operating procedure. A standard way of doing things that you have documented, so it can also be translated down to a VA or team or whatever. But I don't think that having a standardized response or a standardized assessment – do I agree to be in this place or not, or do I agree to collaborate with this person – any of those kinds of things – resolves what I what I'm seeing is the bigger thing, which is being able to integrate the things that you've learned, the things that are now on your radar. I mean, a lot of people took the veil off, as you say, Erica, and it's like now that your eyes are open, are you integrating what you're seeing now? Are you infusing your newfound vision into what you were doing before? Instead, what I see is it's all this – all black lives matter, or all sales – and I don't necessarily think that that's the way to go.
Erica Courdae (21:16): No, and so this is where, again, I'm oversimplifying, but straight to the point – even if you don't know, you have to begin to navigate and dig into what does it look like to say, my business, my brand, my company, how my products look, how I'm talking to my audience, my community, all these things. They're evolving. And we are moving toward a place of being more ethical internally and front-facing. And so, quote unquote, pardon our dust, or bear with us as we work through what this looks like so that our ethics don't end up either not showing up, or being this separate thing from the business. We want them to be together.
And this is where I think there's this fear around it has to be perfectly curated. But then what happens when you can't curate stuff? You can't curate what's happening right now. So you have so you have the choice of either showing up and being willing to be visible and transparent about your evolution, or you just disappear or I guess there's a third option and that's to keep doing the same thing you were doing and being tone deaf. But if you're listening to this, I want to say that that's probably not an option.
I'm not saying you got to air all your dirty laundry like, "Whew, I was trying to let this racist stuff go my mama gave me but you know, I'm trying." I mean, you ain't gotta go give all your stuff. But I think that there is a place to be able to be transparent about that evolution, because that's a part of your leadership. That's about saying, "I am moving through this in a way that I get it." And I would hope the same for those that are here listening and reading what I do, and this is me speaking as the entrepreneur. And so I'm also modeling for you that it is possible to do this.
India Jackson (23:25): Yeah, but I also think that goes back to, you and I are very clear for ourselves as individuals. And this may not be everybody listening, but it's something to ask yourself is, how attached are you to leading as if you know everything? Because the truth of the matter is, a wise man knows that they know nothing, that they still have a world to learn about. But I think that many of us are having trouble stepping into that place of, I'm still figuring this out, or I'm beginning to figure this out. And I hope that you can stick around to see what this looks like for our brand, as we integrate diversity into our brand, or as we integrate whatever value it is – eco friendly, Trans Lives Matter – something. Some people struggle because I think some people are holding on to needing to look like they know everything and like they have it all figured out.
Erica Courdae (24:31): So yes, and so this is where I'm a pause for a hot second. And I'm gonna go back to something that you said two seconds ago, about people having to have a certain amount of clarity on whoever or whatever it is that they're supporting, and what that looks like. But I also want to acknowledge the fact that you don't necessarily have to choose. And so there's a thing right now with people feeling like, if I don't support Black Lives Matter, I'm going to get canceled or people are going to come for me. And I want to acknowledge that you can support Black lives and trans lives.
I think I've talked about this before. I am eco-friendly. And hello, I'm a Black person and I need Black people to not have to worry about living because they are living while black. I can do more than one thing at a time, watch me walk and chew gum.
So you don't have to pick and it doesn't have to be either/or. You can stand for and support more than one cause. And I found that when Black Lives Matter became a large part of the constant conversation, people had a hard time figuring out, does that mean that I can't support anything else? Why are we either/or-ing our support for things? That's not how that works. It's like being like, "I love my mama, but I can't love my daddy at the same time." No, it doesn't.
India Jackson (26:01): You know, it's so important to think about that, because I think now more than ever, in order to really be able to support more than one thing at the same time, we need to know what those things are. And, dare I say those things are not the same thing today as they were five years ago. And if they are, and have been the same things your whole life, maybe we need to reevaluate some stuff because I'm a firm believer that as we learn, we grow we have experience, we change.
Change can actually be great. A lot of people say, "You changed!" like such a negative thing. No. If you're changing and constantly evolving and learning and growing for the better, that's a great thing. So now's a really great time that the veil has been lifted – we're all a little bit more woke than we used to be – to reevaluate what are these values, and which ones do I bring into my brand? Because that's going to inform your "now what?" Your "now what" – no matter how much as a Black woman I want you to support Black Lives Matter – it also needs to include more than that.
Erica Courdae (27:14): Yes. And that’s where like for me – LGBTQIA+. Every time I’m like, damn, I’m gonna leave something off, and somebody’s gonna come get me. Don’t come get me.
India Jackson (27:27): We had that conversation the other day. I can’t keep up.
Erica Courdae (27:31): And I'm willing to absolutely invite somebody on to talk about this, you speak for this space because I can speak as an ally, but I don't identify as anyone within that group. And so I never want to be like, oh, I can talk to it. No, I can say it as an ally. Yes, so that matters. And there's an intersection of black lives with it. There's an intersection of brown lives with it. Indigenous. There's too many intersections there for me to be like, nope, just this one little space.
Because I personally believe that you can't say Black Lives Matter if you won't say Black Trans Lives Matter, and that's just me. But I do feel like you can't be like, "Oh, this black person is good, but that one, I don't know." And so that's where I'm like, stop picking and choosing. You're cherry picking what you want to stand for. And you end up missing the mark. And you missed the whole point.
India Jackson (28:26): Yeah, I mean, even for me, I think that one of my highest levels of values for myself and for my brand is safe spaces. And because we're very anti-abuse of power. Oh, yeah, I can do that. And diversity. So it's just a matter of finding balance. But I'm gonna say getting clear on what these things are is really the root of a lot of me seeing people be stuck. And dare I say, it's also having that safety and space to be able to decompress and get out of fight or flight in your body, so that you can get into the creative and thinking and planning and designing center of your brain. Because that's not going to be able to be on full throttle if our system is telling us that we have to fight or run from a bear. Even if it's just because we're afraid of being canceled on social media, our bodies still processing it the same way.
But I think when we can get into a more calm space, as well, and be clear on what I need to take care of myself versus what I'm running away from, having to do and say something becomes easier, and to figure out what these values are and know what's next. And that's one of the reasons that I really, really enjoy our masterclass because it's a really calm and safe space to be in. We are going to challenge you a little bit on what those values are and pull different things out of you. But you're in there with other business owners who are doing this work too. And I'm really grateful that our marketing, both individually and together under Pause On the Play, has pulled people in who are very empathetic and heart-centric. So they're not going to shame you, either. I know we don't do that. But our people don't do that to others either.
Erica Courdae (30:24): No. And it’s a space where everybody is shoulder to shouldr, saying, “Regardless of how much I do or don’t know, in comparison to how much you do or don’t know, we’re all here to do the work.” We’re all here to find ways to be better and to be in action moving forward, and figuring out what this next iteration looks like. It’s not about better or worse, good or bad. It’s how can I keep moving?
And everybody’s fostering that, not only for themselves, but for each other. And you need that community. There’s something about doing that on your own, that it not only can kind of silo you out, and you’re just singular in it. You don’t get any context. It can be scary. So you need that space to be able to have that support. And somebody else is like, “I get it. I’m going through that, too. It’s okay. We can do this.”
India Jackson (31:20): Yeah, there's something that's so beautiful about that peace. And it's also implied accountability. And sometimes it's blatant accountability. Because eyes are on me. And so that we've had this conversation, they know where I'm coming from. It gives you that extra kick in the butt that I think we all need sometimes to say I'm going to live this through. I'm going to integrate this. I can't go back to the way things were anymore.
Erica Courdae (31:48): No, and there's something about saying it out loud and doing it with others where it's like, "Alright, I said it so I can't deny it now. Plausible deniability is gone." And so when you do that there's a certain amount of committing that has happened. That I think is a part of that forward momentum and that being in action in that way.
India Jackson (32:15): Absolutely. So, if you're listening and you're looking for this space to really get clear on what those values are, so that you can step into your "now what" because the days – or at least I hope it stays this way – the days of the black square gone, there's no one that's going to tell you what to do right now. Head on over to pauseontheplay.com/events. We have officially sold out of all of the sessions for July. So our next available date for this masterclass is going to be September 16. And already we're down to just four seats left. So I'd hop on that quickly. Also if you're someone who feels like you would do better in a more long term process you can work your way through it a little bit at a time and our Pause On the Play Community sounds like a great fit for you, as well, you can learn more about that at pauseontheplay.com/community.
Erica Courdae (33:18): Absolutely. And so this is where I want you to come on over be an action, reserve your seat. Let's get that for momentum going. So as always, we love having you here. We love being able to hold this space so that you can continue dropping the veil, challenging your thoughts, feelings and actions. So join us next time and until then, keep the dialogue going.